In today’s data-saturated world, e-commerce and CPG businesses often find themselves drowning in dashboards, yet struggling to extract actionable insights. Are your investments in complex data visualizations leaving your team paralyzed? In this episode of the Seller’s Edge Podcast, Matt Putra challenges conventional wisdom about dashboards and reveals the surprising power of simple scorecards. The founder and CEO of EightX shares how scorecards can revolutionize your decision-making process, foster team alignment, and drive faster, more impactful business results. Read the full transcript of the conversation below.
Episode 29 of The Seller’s Edge – Matt and Jonathan talk about:
- [00:00] The Rise of Data Overwhelm
- [00:42] Dashboards Vs. Scorecards
- [02:18] More Companies are Investing in Dashboards
- [04:01] Simplifying the Wrong Data
- [04:47] Scorecards can Complement Dashboards
- [06:09] Demonstrating the Power of Scorecards
- [07:38] Scorecards will Eliminate Firedrills
- [08:41] How Dashboards Have Hindered Teams
- [10:15] Dealing with Multiple Sources of Truth
- [12:13] Unreliable Data Paralyzes Teams
- [12:54] Scorecards Help Businesses React Faster
- [18:37] Overbuilding the Solution
- [19:28] How Leaders can Start Using Scorecards
- [23:41] Recap and Closing Remarks
Key Takeaways:
- Simplify KPIs: Focus on what truly matters by first understanding the fundamental metrics that your company should be keeping its finger on the pulse of.
- Empower Teams: Whether it is with scorecards or any other essential platforms, make sure your teams have the tools they need to do their jobs efficiently.
- First, simplify your KPIs and focus on what truly matters. Second, empower your team by distributing decision-making through clear, accessible scorecards.
- Align Goals: Ensure that everyone within the organization is working towards the same goals. By focusing on scorecards, you can move beyond passive data observation and into an era of proactive problem-solving and sustainable growth.
Full Transcript of Episode:
JONATHAN: I had been having this conversation with somebody recently. I was like, I don’t want to look at dashboards. Like, I want to know exactly what the dashboards are telling me. And then if I want to dig deeper, I’ll dig deeper. But I don’t want to spend half a day looking at a dashboard to find out that it’s the same thing I was looking at yesterday or last week.
MATT PUTRA: have been banging on this drum for a little bit now, and one of the big reasons is that only your brightest people can use the dashboard to do anything with, sometimes not even then. And so, like, if you’re an owner and if you have a really great senior couple, people or people they can use dashboards, typically nobody else can use them. Everybody else goes, oh, well, sales are up and impressions are up and NPS is up, and that’s good, but you don’t know what to do. And so then when you look at scorecards, a scorecard, if you build it right, is red or it’s green, meaning that if it’s green, you don’t talk about it. And if it’s red, somebody jumps up and down and figures something out. So anybody at any level of any company can use a scorecard to solve a problem, because as a team, you set the. What numbers you’re going to measure, and as a team, you set the target. And then, then it’s going to go red or it’s going to go green. And so in no case is there ever confusion about when to jump up and down about something. Never. Not once. People can be lazy and not do the work, but it’s not because there’s no, it’s not because there’s confusion. Right. And so scorecards just distribute decision making. They give more accountability. They take weight off the owner’s shoulders, typically because other people are spotting and solving problems. And so you pair scorecards with a meeting structure and problem solving methodology, and you’re. You’re off to the races.
JONATHAN: Agreed on all fronts, it seems. Because I’ve worked with a lot of companies in the last few years, and it seems like every time I’m in a company’s orbit, they’re talking about investing more in dashboards or some, you know, like power bi. Whatever it is that they want to use. And it. Is it my perception that companies are relying more on that or investing more in that or…
MATT PUTRA: No, no, it’s not your perception. Well, I mean, it is a perception, but it’s also true. And by way of example, I have a client in the Bay Area and when I joined them, I was like, hey, let’s make a scorecard. They’re like, yeah, great, let’s make a scorecard. And so we, we got senior team together and brainstormed metrics and did our process, whatever. And the process I have on my website for people to. Or I will have it for people to look at and do their own thing. So we did the process, we got metrics, 30 of them or so. And we said, great, now let’s fill them in and let’s talk about them every week. And they’re like, great, we’re going to have our data science team fill them in. And I was like, why? They’re like, well, because it needs to be automated and no one wants to do any manual work and data science, blah, blah, blah. So two months later, the scorecard is not filled in and no one’s using it. And I said, what’s going on? They said, well, data science can’t figure something out. And I was like, you know what, stop it. Go to the admin team and have someone on the admin team put everything in. It was ready the next week. So yes, people are obsessed with automation and graphics and all this shit, but it’s like, no, start at the basics. Like someone can open this screen and put a number in and open that screen and put a number in and yeah, it’s manual, but it got done and then the data science team came back over top of this person and automated the things after that.
JONATHAN: So do you think that that’s just kind of an offshoot from. Because everyone’s like the. One of the big buzzwords is just digital transformation and being able to take data and put it into some. So it’s like we don’ Even know what this is. It looks like hieroglyphics to us, but it’s better than what we had before. We can actually see it now.
MATT PUTRA: There is a case to be made for that, but I think one I’ve been banging my head against what is one of the main problems with growing and sustainably scaling a business? And I think it’s my niche is ecom, cpg. Right. And I think that people over complicate where they shouldn’t and they then simplify where they shouldn’t. Meaning Dashboard Complicated. Yay. Cash flow forecast. 10 lines in a CSV switch it. Casual Carecast complicated. Dashboard. 10 lines in a CSV then you’d be way better off.
JONATHAN: There’s probably some ego elements in that with just certain people wanting to be. They’re like, you can’t simplify my job. This needs to be complicated. Like I don’t want anybody to be able to just translate everything I know.
MATT PUTRA: And I’m not against dashboards. I’m not, I kind of am. But I would say use a scorecard. And then so dashboards is, let’s say it’s further up the pyramid. Scorecards form a base or some base level at some point because it’s again, red. Earth’s green, anybody can use it, whatever. Then when it’s red, your dashboard can help you explain what’s going on. But a dashboard doesn’t tell you what to do. There’s no flashing light. There’s typically not a button that says wrong, you know, and so then not everyone knows what to do with the dashboard.
JONATHAN: Yeah, there’s nothing funnier than when you pull like the finance team and the product team together. And the finance team’s like, look at these trend lines. And the product team’s like, I don’t know what those mean. They’re like, yeah, but go figure this out. You’re like, you need to figure out a way to translate that for everyone to use. And scorecards are a great way to do that because I think one of the biggest pain points at companies is just being in silos and cross departmental communication, all of that. I mean, is there anything better than having an entire company aligned in its efforts?
MATT PUTRA: Nothing. Nothing. And that’s been corollary to my CFO work. That’s been an area where I personally have been doing a lot more work is this alignment and organization part. And I have CFOs that are now doing the CFO part and I’m working on doing more of this organizational alignment. But yeah, but yes, yes. An aligned and focused team is the new. What’s the. It’s the new industrial revolution. I mean, I’m being a bit facetious but like focus is the new superpower.
JONATHAN: Agreed. Is there a specific. You mentioned CPG in the E commerce space. Do you feel like there’s a specific, I don’t know, use case or KPI that translates better to a scorecard than a dashboard just to kind of persuade people away from it?
MATT PUTRA: Good question. Here’s what Everybody will know it’s for E Commerce. Everybody will know cac customer acquisition costs. Okay, you can put it on a dashboard or maybe it’s a line or maybe it’s a bar chart. So it’s going up. At what point do you do something about it? There’s no crossing or hurdle line. Then. Then you don’t know when to do anything about it. And let’s say going up isn’t a bad thing. If it’s going up but you’re making more money, then great. So on a scorecard, what you’ll have is you’ll have CAC week over week, you’ll have a target. If it’s below the target, no one talks about it. You just do the thing. Right? And if it goes red, then you talk about it. And that’s where on the dashboard, like, what week do you talk? What increases too much? When. When do something? So that’s a very simple one. Cpg. You might look at rate of sale, for example, and rate of sale, you might see it going up and down or whatever from retailers. If you have that data. And again, you know, at what point do you talk about it? If it goes down one week, is it a problem? Well, if it’s below your target on your scorecard, talk about it. If it’s not below your target, don’t need to talk about it. Right. Amazon. One that I would look at, of course, would be if you can measure ranking weekly or if you can measure even cost per session or tacos, for example. Those are all things I would put on a scorecard. And again, you can graph them, too, and there’s no reason you shouldn’t graph them, but do a scorecard first.
JONATHAN: I love those examples because it’s funny how many times I’ve been in a situation where, you know, people will start fire drills because they’ll be like, oh, this went up by a dollar. And you’re like, oh, okay. And then at the end of the day, you’re like, did that even matter? Why are we all scrambling to figure that out if it’s not actually affecting anything? I think if anything else, it just kind of shines a light on the fact that the person who starts that fire drill doesn’t necessarily know everything that they should know.
MATT PUTRA: Yeah, well, and that’s why when you, you know, you start with your senior team and you build a scorecard for them, and then every senior team member typically will have their own team. And so then you build a scorecard for each team, and by the time you’re done, every team, or at least every department and every person should own a number somewhere. And if you start here, they’re all kind of laddered into each other, if you can. If you can do that correctly. And so that, that helps with the alignment and it helps with the who’s going to jump up and down and which is where I Come in with the organizational structure and alignment, which is if you have meetings that are, you know, the senior team meets and then they meet. They meet with that. Like, there’s so much more cascading of information and alignment through the teams. Yeah.
JONATHAN: Can you give a specific example where you had a sophisticated dashboard actually hinder, rather than help a sales team’s performance or any team’s. I mean, we can even look at.
MATT PUTRA: Marketing executive team I’m working with now where their dashboards are hindering performance. They created the dashboard and they have a. Also have a data science team. And. And before I got there, they had agreed to do data a certain way. Meaning, like, they would. I don’t know if I can say the too specific, but like, they just structured their data in a certain way that made it so that it didn’t correlate to their closed accounting records very regularly. And so every month when we close the books, it doesn’t match the data. The data science team and the CEO were like, well, the dashboards say this. And we’re like, well, that’s not the truth. Like, well, our dashboards are coming from all the source data. And we’re like, yeah, but you’re applying these transformations inside that funnel of the ELT funnel where it’s transforming some things from the way they should be that I think they would be as a, as your chief accountant. Right. To how the books are getting done, because the books have to get done on Gap. And so it’s obfuscating reality because this is different than this and no one knows which one is correct, but, like, the books are correct and we know that because we’re audited and all these things, but no one audits the dashboards. And so that is causing problems at a high level with this company on like strategy and product margins and, and discounting and how much do we spend on ads. It’s even one we can’t answer because which margin is correct. Right. I know which margin is correct. But you have very strong people on this team, very talented people. And so there’s these differences and reconciling them has been very hard.
JONATHAN: Yeah. I worked for a company that, I mean, just had multiple sources of truth, really, which is. It’s just like a dashboard or a scorecard isn’t going to help you. I mean, it will if you can just, you know, decide on one single source of truth. But it always makes me wonder, and I kind of lose sleep on this some nights is like, how many companies actually have that going on.
MATT PUTRA: Something I’ve come to– You mentioned multiple sources of truth. In my experience, people want one single source of truth and I actually don’t think that that’s out there. I think that you have multiple sources of truth and you just define what they mean to you. Meaning the accounting records are a true snapshot of a company’s health. Right. But there’s a cash flow analysis that ad buyers will do, that’s a legitimate view on cash flows at a day level. Let them do their thing based on that because they’re gonna, they’re gonna adjust to maximize cash on a day level and eventually it will correlate to better profit, but not right away. And so I, my belief, I suppose, is that you will always have multiple sources. And actually trying to get the one is another thing that makes it very difficult. People like, it’s just not possible. So allow yourself to multiple truth. Just define what they mean and what their purpose is. So this marketing dashboard, its purpose is day to day navigation of the marketing accounts. The, the gap, you know, whatever, QuickBooks, Netsuite, whatever it is that is the source of truth for business strategy, long term vision, quarterly vision. But the marketing stuff is day to day, week to week. Use them the way you’re supposed to use them, but define what their uses and what their meanings are in advance of rolling everything out. There might be one that’s like fulfillment, let’s say. And, and again, you know, it’s tactical. How do I do my fulfillment team? What’s the plan with the fulfillment team? And it may differ from the accounting records, but if you define what they’re for and how you use them, it solves some of this problem because I just don’t think a single source of truth and I haven’t seen one work.
JONATHAN: I guess that’s true. And you’re putting all of your eggs in one bast. Yeah, I think the, I think the, the caveat that I should have added to my explanation is that all of the sources of truth said something different. So it was just like whatever the inputs or dependencies were for them building that internally on their team. You’re like, you missed something. And I’m not sure if you missed it or we missed it. So it just causes this crisis of confidence throughout a company.
MATT PUTRA: Yeah, that’s a really great. Oh man, I don’t know if I heard that term before. Crisis of confidence. It’s like we feel paralyzed to make a quarterly long term plan because we’re like, what do we do? Which one is correct? Should we spend on a Like a Forex or three and a half massive differences to bottom line. But like yeah, yeah, crisis of confidence. Interesting.
JONATHAN: Yeah. And a scorecard, I mean obviously it simplifies things and it would also help teams react faster, which is always a better thing rather than three months late. So can you walk us through, I mean we talk about dashboard, like a sophisticated dashboard kind of hindering things. Can you walk us through an example of like when it helped the team react faster in practice?
MATT PUTRA: I have a story of someone who could have reacted faster and this is somebody I work with and it was October of last year and their fulfillment center on time shipment rate went to shit and they didn’t have a scorecard for it to the ops team didn’t have their own scorecard and they found out about two, there was like a labor dispute or something and there was like two weeks where they didn’t know, then they found out and then they had to fly there and then they fixed it but they short shipped Amazon in the meantime and so they took a 300 grand revenue hit and a further revenue hit the next month because the buy box was hit also. But if they had a scorecard they would have seen on time shipment drop the week that it happened. So they would have flown there faster, fixed it faster, all these things, they still would have lost some money but the hit of the buy box would have been less and they would have lost maybe 150 grand revenue instead of 300 grand. So that was one where a very simple one line red, green would have helped them. But again they just didn’t see it until the labor dispute was reported to them. Another thing on a scorecard is like well this one didn’t have full buy in from all teams. But something that I saw is that I was, I was watching CAC targeting on a per channel basis, Amazon, E Comm and otherwise and I saw it go off a cliff quickly but people didn’t agree on the number so we couldn’t decide and anyway there was further problems but I noticed right away when it went wrong.Â
JONATHAN: Yeah, I love cautionary tales because you learn the most from them. But they also hurt my heart to hear because you’re just like oof.
MATT PUTRA: I will tell a good, I’ll tell a good one. So I work with, I work with the private equity group right now as well and we are watching this number. We are doing a lot of deal activity and there’s a number we’re watching about how much money we’re putting out and versus how Much we’re receiving to kind of balance our capital flows. And in our scorecard, we saw that the ratio go off week to week. Boom happened. Red, great. Call a meeting. And so it’s my. I own that number. And so call a meeting with the managing directors, say, hey, this number’s off. What are we going to do? They go, oh, there’s a source here and there’s a source here. We can pull that one forward, pull out for it. And before there’s a problem, we fixed it, but we predicated the problem that’s going to happen six months away, but we fix it now. Right. Because the beauty of a scorecard is if you do it right, you will fix problems that are going to yet happen before they happen. So we are six months ahead of this problem because I’m watching this one ratio.
JONATHAN: And I love that. Love anything that’s proactive because I think, you know, you don’t know the things you don’t know. So it’s nice when something tells you what you don’t know.
MATT PUTRA: Totally. And you won’t always get there, but it takes time, you know, know, and it takes experience and. But yeah, like being six months ahead of an issue is like the fucking dream. The dream. Imagine like if you can just predicate, if you can just fix problems before they happen. Like that gold, Gold. And you won’t always get there, but you can, you can get there to. On some things.
JONATHAN: Yeah, for sure. There are people who are married to dashboards and I imagine you’re just, I mean, you’re probably your stance on this is, hey, you get to keep your nightlight on, but provide, provide a scorecard for the rest of the company so that we can all not get in each other’s way. But for those people who are sort of married to dashboards or companies that are married to dashboards, what would you kind of, what argument would you make to those people?
MATT PUTRA: So I have to balance being inflammatory versus helpful, of course, because inflammatory cells. And yeah, I won’t. But honestly, you do. You get to keep your dashboard. You get to keep your nightlight security blanket. You get to keep. I don’t give a shit. Look at whatever you want, but make me a scorecard too. Right. I am not going to look at your dashboard as a CFO or any senior finance leaders. I’m going to look at all the dashboards for all the companies, but they can scan 10 scorecards once a week and make heads or tails out of what’s going on. If they’re all green, sweet company’s feeling great. If this one’s red, that department’s having trouble. You know what I mean? Like, scorecards will help everybody. But specifically, if you’re an owner listening to this, it helps you, A, other people spot problems and help you solve problems first. B, you get to look and see how people are doing. If marketing’s red, go talk to them this week. Maybe you don’t look at fulfillment. So the people that love their dashboards. Dashboards can and do provide value. I’m being nice. Customers do provide value. But also build a scorecard for your team. Because if you love your dashboard, there’s a good chance that you know how to use it and that you’re bright enough to use it and making decisions. But I guarantee you, your job gets easier when you make a scorecard, too, because then your team can help you with your job. And most of us, most of the time, I shouldn’t say most of us. I’d say there’s a lot of people who want to grow in their careers. A scorecard helps you do that. Because if you’re making all the decisions, there’s only so many you can make, and that throttles your own growth in your career. You come into a department, or let’s say you’re in your department now, and it’s got dashboards. And so everyone goes like, well, the dashboard’s saying this, and you have to be in every meeting to help people understand what it means. What if you’re away on vacation and they make shitty decisions? Well, that. Whatever. So now you make a scorecard and other people are spotting problems and coming up with things and you give them credits and all these things. Someone’s going to notice what you’ve done in your department. You will get chances to grow by building up other people, too. So that’s my pitch.
JONATHAN: Love it. You kind of. I have two. I have, like, two branches of thought, so I’m going to try to circle back to the other one after I ask this question. Have you noticed in your time pitching scorecards over dashboards, sort of a litmus test for personality types. If you learn that, like, there are certain people who are resistant to it, while there are others who are like, yeah, this is what we need.
MATT PUTRA: Yep. And I would say the people that are resistant want to overbuild it and automate it. And they go, well, it’s not tracking everything and it’s not automated. And I had a call like that last week, and I that’s not what they said. But they were hung up on it. Because they took the dashboard that I gave them in a workshop and they added 35 more numbers to it. And they said, well, we want to measure all this stuff, but our team doesn’t have a way to get this number. And that number that I was like, we’ll delete it then and we can’t automate it. I was like, well, don’t get a va. And so the only time I struggle is a. When the owners struggle and owners that. So this is lower. So yeah, when the owners struggle is typically because they have less focus, to be honest, they are unable to focus is the big one. When owners struggle, that’s the only one. And then when it struggles actually implemented, it’s just because they add too much to it and want to automate it. Those are the times I, those are the only times I see people struggle.
JONATHAN: Yeah, you know, just in my own experiences there are people who. And this goes back to something you spoke to about just like as, as far as managing teams because it’s less of a concern I have at startups because you tend to have a younger, you tend to have a younger demographic and you know, they know their way around technology and automations and things. But at companies that have a mix of demographics, where you have older, older demographics and younger ones, there’s something to letting go of the old way. And so I’m curious, there’s a question I have here about like just institutional memory and just being able to be like, all right, you’ve been doing this thing with the dashboard for years. Like how would you make the argument to somebody who is dependent on using a dashboard to sort of train their team or coach their team and now bring a scorecard into it because it feels like you’re taking a lot of the, you know, the analytical part out of it.
MATT PUTRA: Sure, sure. I don’t work with really massive companies with like gray haired people usually. Or like, like no, you. Not really. No, no, like fully gray. But so like I would say people in their 40s and 30s are typically kind of my audience. 50s sometimes I guess. And I haven’t failed to get buy in but once. And that was in a very small company who again thought they should automate it and couldn’t automate it and weren’t willing to pay a va, so whatever. And the, the pitching process, I find it’s all very democratic because I’m not sitting there with the CEO and making a scorecard and telling people what numbers that they’re going to watch. I don’t do it that way. I Go, guys, I think we should have a scorecard, and here’s why. And they go, why? And they let them ask me all these questions. And I don’t always start with scorecard, start with meeting structure first. And I go, let’s meet. I go, great, let’s add this to the meeting. Okay, great. And I said, well, how about scorecards? Like, you know, how do we spot problems and how do we react and could we react faster? And they go, yeah, sure. Great. Well, what are the. What are the numbers that you would want to watch on the scorecard? Let’s have a meeting about this. And so we have a. We have a workshop, and we go, you tell me five to 15 things you want, and every person in the room tells me five to 15 things they want on there. And then we. We work through them together, very EOS process. And by the end of it, we have five to 20 to maybe 30 things that everybody has had an opinion on. And they go, great, these are the numbers. Who wants to own them? Put up your hand. So people will put up their hand to own this, that, or the other. And they go, great, what. What do you want the target to be? And they go, here’s the target. And I go, great. And then we just measure against their target that they set. And so, in so doing, I’ve not dictated anything. They’ve created everything themselves. And this is the beauty of EOS in general in this process and specifically, is that it’s so democratic. As long as the owners are bought in, the. It’s easy for the rest of the team. Never once has the rest of a team put up a fight if the owners bought in. Never once. Not once. And I mean, look, I’m doing this for five years and I’m doing scorecards for, like, one. It’s only been a new thing for me. But if the owners are bought in and allow people to be flexible, everyone’s fine. And I’m talking like, you know, senior team of like, nine people. Got them all on side. Didn’t take very long. Right. Because it’s democratic. They. They’re building the scorecard. I’m just facilitating.
JONATHAN: Yeah, the right approach. I like that a lot.
MATT PUTRA: Yeah, it’s really been phenomenal.
JONATHAN: Yeah, that’s great. For any leaders out there who are listening, who want or intrigued by the idea and want to implement scorecards, what do you think is the. Where should they start? What are the first steps?
MATT PUTRA: Interesting to say that, because I’m just recording a course for this, and I don’t know if It’ll be free or. But it’ll be very cheap. In any, in any case, it’ll be on my site and I’ll give you something in the show notes, right? But the other place you could start is there’s a eos, so Traction. Gina Wickman A great, great place to start is that book. I would say beyond that, I have a recorded webinar that I’m going to give you the show notes for too. So people can just follow along. But it’s very simple, honestly. So simple. I’ll tell you what it is very briefly. You get your key people in a meeting and you ask them if you’re on a tropical island and there’s no WI fi, no cell service or anything, nothing. And a boat comes once every four weeks and with a letter and on that letter is your measurables, your metrics on your scorecard. And all you get is that letter every four weeks. That’s all you get. And based on that, let either have to rush back to the office or you get to stay on the island for another four weeks. When you in your mind close your eyes and look at that letter, what’s on it. You just ask your four or five senior team what what’s on that thing for them? And then you’re going to get 45 items and you go, we got to get this down to 15. And you go through the list and you go combine this with that one and take that one off and can’t measure this weekly and whatnot. You get to 20 things done. That’s it. So simple. And then you go, who wants to own the numbers? And people put up their hand and then they get to pick the targets and then you just get a VA to plug them all in every week. And a very easy Excel thing, the conditional format, the red or green if they’re above or less than the target. And then your scorecard is done. And you do that same process with each team that you want to have a scorecard again. You can do it in a couple hours for each team, but then your scorecards are done and then you just need a meeting structure. But review the scorecard if it’s red, solve the problem, root cause analysis, and then you’re off to the races.
JONATHAN: Not only is that a phenomenal exercise, I really think that we should try pitching a reality TV series where that is the actual premise. And you put a bunch of executives on an island and you want to see what happens. And if it becomes alert of the flies for like companies competing against each.
MATT PUTRA: Other, that would be hilarious. Which company can survive longest without their senior team?
JONATHAN: Yeah, there’s gotta be a way to do that. I mean, it’d be great marketing, be a hell of a publicity stunt for them.
MATT PUTRA: But it’s a super simple process. Right. And like this is again, where people make things complex. Complex. That should be simple. And, and vice versa. And a lot of things, the big ideas about business can be simplified more than people think. And this is one. It’s so powerful and it’s so easy. And I don’t know what you think about Alex Ramosi, but he just put something, he put something on social the other day. The hard thing is to do the easy thing in a disciplined way over time. And I, I mean, again, I don’t agree with everything he says, but that one was gold. But this is so simple. Do the thing, do the workshop. Two hours, get a va, four bucks an hour, six bucks an hour, whatever it is, once a week, log in, do your scorecard, do everyone else’s scorecards, then they’re done, and just talk about what’s read. It’s so simple. You’ll move faster, make better decisions.
JONATHAN: Yeah. Really great stuff. I think so many companies are absolutely on board with that. I just keep thinking of like the older, bigger companies that I’ve worked for. And it’s just like, it’s so funny how it’s just cultural issues at like larger companies because there’s control issues and people wanting to look like they’re doing their jobs, which to me makes me feel like you’re not doing your jobs when you need to look like you’re trying to prove to everybody else that you’re doing your job. And I’m like, people would just believe you if you didn’t try to sell it so hard.
MATT PUTRA: Yeah, that’s a good point. And I mean, you know, I don’t work with really big companies, but Companies up to 100 million I work with and I’ve gotten adoption in there. 100 million, 80 million, 70 million around there. Obviously I don’t work with anybody bigger than everyone else. Bigger than that has their own cfo. Right. So that’s kind of where I cap out at size. Yeah.
JONATHAN: Awesome. Yeah. And I mean, I’ll put all of your. Every way that people can get in contact with you. Put your home phone number on there and your address and all that stuff.
MATT PUTRA: Yes, please. Thank you. Yeah. Send me letters. Send me your measurables in a letter.
JONATHAN: Yeah, yeah, I’ll tell them what tropical island you’re on so that they can come find you. Yeah. I would love to check out the webinar that you put together and see some of this stuff in practice.
MATT PUTRA: Absolutely. You got it. Yeah.
JONATHAN: Matt, thank you so much.
MATT PUTRA: This was amazing. Thank you, Jonathan.
